Welcome to another episode of Broker’s Playbook! Today, we have the absolute pleasure of welcoming Miss Cailey Heaps, the number one in the country for both GCI and the leader in luxury real estate in Toronto, Canada’s biggest market. We’ll be discussing her hard work and success in this ever-evolving market and how you can ensure your market share increases and get results in the short term. Don’t miss this chance to learn from Cailey – tune into Broker’s Playbook to see what Cailey Heaps has to offer!
Simeon Papailias: Hello, everybody. This is your boy Simeon, and this is another episode of Broker’s Playbook. Today I have the absolute pleasure of welcoming my good friend, colleague, and number one in the country for both GCI and the leader in luxury real estate in the city of Toronto, Canada’s biggest market, Miss Cailey Heaps. I have known Cailey for years, and we have masterminded and collaborated together on numerous occasions. Always an experience that I look back on as a learning experience. Always a pleasure. We’re going to be speaking about what she’s doing right now in this ever evolving market where unless you are part of the shift, unless you are part of the awareness, unless you are part of the empathy movement, you are not going to see market share increase or results in the short term. Stay tuned to see what this brilliant realtor brings to the table. Miss Cailey Heaps, welcome to Broker’s Playbook. This is not your first time. This is your second time.
Cailey Heaps: It is. Thank you for having me. Happy to be back.
Simeon Papailias: It is my absolute pleasure to have you. We did speak for a few minutes before we start recording, and I’m super excited with kind of our direction in what we’re going to be speaking to today, because I believe it is very important that we share what is effective. In what is authentic. If you or I or any of our colleagues can stay authentic and do the right thing, and those actions bring results into their practice, I think that is a win. That is the win.
Cailey Heaps: Without question.
Simeon Papailias: I am looking for your insight today. I’m going to let you speak a little bit about your thoughts over the last, let’s call it. Not even six months have been tougher, but let’s talk about the last 12 months in Cailey’s world. The Estrin Heaps team. The Heaps Estrin team. Excuse me.
Cailey Heaps: Estrin. That’s right, the Heaps Estrin team.
Simeon Papailias: You are Canada’s leader in luxury real estate. And transaction dollars traded. It’s not even close, as a matter of fact. So. And I’m not putting it out there to pump your tires or to impress anyone, but it’s more to impress upon everyone that this woman has been doing this for. A minute, meaning a decade plus at the highest level, and whether the market’s going upwards, downwards, sideways, you’re consistently there and people choose you as their representation. Last 12 months. Why do people continue to choose you?
Cailey Heaps: It’s a really good question. So the reason I would choose me and choose my team is I think we fight harder than most people. We work harder, and one of the things we say all the time at our team is people above all else. And we mean that both internally, within our team, but also with our clients. So I think it’s I think it’s a common mistake of agents that they view a sale as a transaction, and that’s not what it is. It’s an opportunity to connect with another person and to hopefully change their lives in a positive way. And I think if your clients feel that, if they feel that you’re invested in the outcome and that you actually genuinely care, that’s how your business grows. They’re going to tell their friends and it just grows organically. I am competitive, I’m competitive on behalf of myself and the team, but I’m also competitive on behalf of my clients. I want them to win. Even in this market where winning is hard, you still want to feel like you’ve won. So I think those are probably the main reasons people would choose us. We work harder, we make people more money.
Simeon Papailias: The value proposition for somebody who doesn’t know you. So and again, I’m going to try to put things into context for somebody either starting out halfway through their journey, their career. Somebody doesn’t know you.
Cailey Heaps: Yeah. Why would you hire me or why would you?
Simeon Papailias: I don’t know that you put people first. How do they resonate with that? What do you do in your marketing to ensure that people know that off the bat? How do you translate that message?
Cailey Heaps: Yeah. So I mean, there’s a lot of ways, I think if I was sitting here speaking to a potential client, the things that I would talk about is the team approach. There’s an expert in every step of the process. You’re getting the best of whatever that process is. There’s no one better in the industry who’s going to be delivering on that, whether it’s my listings team, my marketing team, my sales team, me with strategy. You’re just going to get the best of everything. You’re staying, paying the same price as a single agent, but you’re getting so much more. If you look at market share, I mean, that’s a very simple metric to show someone. Here are the stats in Toronto. There’s literally no one selling more real estate than us.
Simeon Papailias: Period.
Cailey Heaps: End of story. So if you would like a successful transaction, why would you choose number 2345? I like. I actually just don’t understand. I almost feel this is a really horrible thing to say, and I don’t mean it to sound the way it’s going to, but I sometimes feel badly when people choose other agents. I think, oh my God, you just cost yourself like 100 because you.
Simeon Papailias: Genuinely believe in your ability, your your performance, where it’s, you know, you’re better than anyone else.
Cailey Heaps: It’s demonstrated. I mean, we have countless sales where we’ve taken over listings from other agents, and then we’ve gone on to sell them after for more money. So I just want to pause. But I will not.
Simeon Papailias: Do is because you’re right. It does. It doesn’t sound. It doesn’t sound good kind. No, no, no. But it’s also not I’m not going to allow it to sound ignorant. So because you’re you truly, genuinely believe you have the confidence in you to know that you do a better job, let’s just say, than most. Are you the best in the world?
Cailey Heaps: No, I’m definitely not. And I want to be really clear. There are a lot of great agents in Toronto, so all I’m saying is that our value proposition is different because our model is different than anyone else in Toronto.
Simeon Papailias: Well, I think it’s also a testament to your confidence, because it does take that much confidence to be able to wake up every morning, in my case, 17 years, every morning I need to wake up and perform. And you can bet your last dollar that I believe I’m better than you. Yeah, and I know as a fact that when you wake up, you know as a fact that you’re better than me. So.
Cailey Heaps: No, I wouldn’t say that. No, but what I’m saying better at different things.
Simeon Papailias: Sure, but I’m not saying it from an ignorance perspective. Yeah. I’m saying as a mindset, how are we getting through this time? How do we continue to fight? Listing, presentation, buyer agency, commercial transaction. We got to go fight. Yeah, we got to win.
Cailey Heaps: Well, I think so. I’m you know me well enough to know I’m a very high empath. I care just as much about a person as the deal, if not more about the person. So when I speak like this, it’s not out of arrogance or cockiness. It’s I just think that there are so many people in our industry who are great and there are so many people in our industry who are not, and the ones who are not are the ones who have very blurry moral lines, who are willing to tell a lie to get a deal done, who are willing to stab someone in the back to get a deal done. I am never, ever going to.
Simeon Papailias: Transactions ever worth.
Cailey Heaps: It. My reputation’s not worth it. I have so much on the line, I’m just not going to do that. So I’ve been in a few deals in the last ten days. In this market is tricky. Where I have seen agents lie to my face, lie to my clients, tell me they’re going to do something and not do it. And I think this is not a winning business model. If you’re going to get through this next tough period, you better have strong morals. You better have character, you better care about the outcome. Like to do that for one deal?
Simeon Papailias: I don’t remember every win, but I do remember every loss. And if you did something wrong and I lost as a result of your actions, trust me, it’s not something I will be forgetting.
Cailey Heaps: So that was my deal last night.
Simeon Papailias: So with that being said, I think again this conversation is bringing out both the good and the bad. My question to you is how do you win? And you told me how you win. It didn’t sound good, but it’s the truth. And that’s the advice actually, to all people. You need to wake up and know you’re better than anyone else, and you need to be able to translate that value proposition to the client.
Cailey Heaps: You have to believe you’re better at what you’re offering. Yes, it doesn’t mean you’re better than everyone else. I perhaps didn’t say it properly, but you have to believe that of the people that they are meeting with, you are by far the best option. Love it. And if you go into that room believing that. You’re more than halfway there.
Simeon Papailias: Okay, so I’m going to take you back 15 years.
Cailey Heaps: When? Perhaps 13. Okay, great.
Simeon Papailias: When you weren’t number one on the board in an area. And. Jane Smith was number one in the area. And you needed to take a listing. Tell me how you would fight the Cailey Heaps of the time. What is an advice to an agent that wants to infiltrate your market? Let me just put it this way. I’m trying to break into your market. What can I what tools can I use? What mindset do I need to have to be able to fight the giant? How does David take on Goliath?
Cailey Heaps: I mean, join the team.
Simeon Papailias: Easy peasy.
Cailey Heaps: No, I think it’s difficult. I mean, I think we’ve seen a major shift, so the advice I would have given 15 years ago was very different than today. True, the model is moving towards a team model. It’s difficult for a single agent to compete, no doubt, because I think about, you know, our economies of scales and our businesses. We can invest in things other people can’t invest in when we do.
Simeon Papailias: Yeah.
Cailey Heaps: And so I don’t really know how to answer that, except for to say that the reason I’ve been successful is where we started to care about the people, care about the outcome. Don’t focus on the money. I honestly. Never knew what my income was until a few years ago. I started tracking it more. Until the end of the you know, historically, I would know at the end of the year. Now I have to stay on it because it’s a business and there’s other people who are being fed massive overhead. Yeah, but if you focus on the money, it’s not it’s not the right thing to focus on. You’re never going to be successful.
Simeon Papailias: So I will give a single piece of advice to solo agents, because I still do believe teams in a big business is not for everyone. Some people don’t want the headache that we have generated for ourselves and the responsibility that comes with it. When I wake up every day, there’s 50 plus agents that I am responsible in some way or form about their outcome for the year. And a lot of people don’t want that headache, and fairly so. So if you do choose to be a solo agent and you have to compete against myself, I’ll just internalize this to make it easy. It’s not going to be an easy path for you, because if I walk into a listing presentation and then you walk in after me or before me, there is very little room that I will leave for any doubt that I am not the person for the job. So for you to be able to outshine an entire value proposition that stretches across 6 or 8 disciplines of marketing, selling, transportation, logistics, and all the things I would say the single most valuable thing a solo agent can do is focus on the one on one personal relationship that they can bring to the table.
Cailey Heaps: Which is exactly what I just said. Care about the people, not the money.
Simeon Papailias: Care about the people, not the money. And I mean, you have to be able to translate that in the most.
Cailey Heaps: Authentic.
Simeon Papailias: Intimate way to outshine the value of a machine. Yeah, you have to make me look like a machine that cannot possibly care for the client enough the way you would as a solo, one on one agent.
Cailey Heaps: And then it’s the client’s decision. Do they want the hand-holding and personal relationship, or do they want the money? Love it. It’s it’s difficult to get both.
Simeon Papailias: I love it, and I think that is a good piece of advice for the solo agents looking to break into those markets, because I do want everybody to get value and insight out of you today, because you built that business one by one. Yeah, one listing at a time.
Cailey Heaps: Well, and if you want to know what I would tell my own agents, you can’t cheat. Hard work, no hustle. I still work every day. A minimum of, I’d say a minimum of 12 hours. Often more than that. Hard work will always win.
Simeon Papailias: Again because I’m the same way and it’s difficult, and I don’t want it to overshadow because other people believe in.
Cailey Heaps: Balance.
Simeon Papailias: Again. And I beg to differ because this is the lifestyle that I chose. So it is balanced to me. Other people look at me and say, you’re sick. Why do you ever want to work so much and what have you? But like my entire life is blended into my work. Yeah, because it’s the way I like it. So it doesn’t matter. 12 hours a day brings a specific result. So if anybody is looking for an exceptional. Volume and financial result. There is absolutely no way around what needs to happen to get that, and that does involve, I’m again, sorry to say, 12 hour minimum in this line of work for multiple years. So the snowball effect can take on its form and do what it needs to do. We spoke a lot about earlier. Um, awareness. Tell me about your thoughts on awareness and what that means to you.
Cailey Heaps: Yeah, and this is I mean, it means a lot to me. And I think it’s not necessarily even the context of, of real estate transaction. It’s. In life in general. I think we’re in a time where people are feeling heaviness around them, whether it’s financial pressure, whether it’s uncertainty about the economy, whether it’s relationship issues, health issues, you know, everyone has something. And I find that in my communications with people, the only thing they’re focused on is there something. And it’s a very difficult way to navigate life. If you’re only focused on what’s happening to you. You have to keep in mind that everyone has something on their plate. How you handle it will define who you are and. To be empathetic, even without the knowledge that someone needs empathy or needs concern or caring. Just be a good human being. It’s ultimately what it comes down to. I just went through school interviews with my son. It was thinking about moving to the States at age 13 and the great.
Simeon Papailias: Yeah.
Cailey Heaps: And he’ll likely do it, but that’s a whole different story. But at the end of the day, you know, the advice that that that he came to in speaking, speaking to people who are important to me, speaking to the admissions teams, it was boiled down or distilled down to one thing. Just be a good person. Be a person who has character, who cares about other people. That is fundamentally what will make for a happy life. The money’s nice. Money makes life easier. But if you’re an asshole and you have money, your life isn’t going to be great. No. So I think if everyone can sort of start there and be a little bit less selfish and a little more selfless.
Simeon Papailias: Why do you think that’s so important right now? Not just in general life? Obviously, being a better person is beneficial to society in general. Yeah, in business, in this game we call real estate. How much more listening do we have to do? How much more do we have to just close the mouth? Stop talking about yourself and listen.
Cailey Heaps: So I think there’s a fundamental issue with listening, as most people listen for the sake of responding, not for the sake of listening. So if people can actually just stop and listen, don’t care about what you’re going to say next, just think about what you’re hearing. I think that would change dialogue in a meaningful way. How much more do we have to listen now? I mean, I know you very well. I would imagine that in your life. You have legitimate challenges on a daily basis. You don’t sit around talking about them. I’d be happy to talk about them. I’d be happy to support you in them. But even not talking about them when I see you, you know, it’s just showing you I’m here. I’m in your life. If ever I can do anything, I’m here. So I think if we can do that throughout our relationships and you do it not just to the people who are your peers, you do it to the person who’s cleaning your office, to the person who’s pumping your gas, to the person in line in the grocery store. It’s just a harder time for people. I think the pandemic effect has been hard for people. I think the changing economy is incredibly difficult.
Simeon Papailias: Incredibly difficult.
Cailey Heaps: Yeah, I think relationships as a result of the economy are becoming more difficult.
Simeon Papailias: Putting strain on the internal of the home.
Cailey Heaps: Every single aspect of your day, you know, you wake up in a house where there’s more stress, your kids are going to school, where there’s kids who aren’t socialized because they were at home for so long. Your business is more difficult. We’re working five, ten, 20 times harder to make less money. Everything is just harder. So if you can get joy from the people in your life, then that’s how you’re going to get through these, these times, in my opinion. And I think, you know, empathy is a really. It’s talked about so much and I think that that practicing it. For some it’s just an eight, but if it’s not an eight, start being mindful of it as you’re going into a meeting. Okay, let me think about what. Susie has in her life. Let me just go into it some awareness of what might be difficult for her so that you can try and not solve for it, but. Support.
Simeon Papailias: I would say even rounding out an agenda like, we’re all busy, everybody has things and things to do, people to see and things to get to. Um, I spent a lot more time communicating. I communicate, we communicate for a living. Um, but, I mean, from this morning, like, I got on my first phone call at 7:00. That’s because I am intentionally spending ten minutes before every meeting speaking to people before I get to the subject, not to waste their time, but to. Exactly. Talk about. Hey, man. How’s it going?
Cailey Heaps: Connection.
Simeon Papailias: And it’s proven because I intentionally did it just to see how everybody’s doing. Maybe because I wanted to do it.
Cailey Heaps: Maybe you wanted it back.
Simeon Papailias: Yeah. So who knows why I invented it for myself when I did. Probably about six months plus. Maybe because I’m feeling the stress. Yeah, maybe. I just wanted to see how things are. But what has happened as a result is. Knowing somebody. Mental positioning. Allows you to position. Your agenda thereafter. In a way that’s conducive. To the task at hand. To be clear, if I was going in for an ask and I know this person has nothing to give, I might save my ask for a later time and just conclude the conversation before I even start it. If I’m going in for a give and this person wants nothing right now, I just might save my give for a different time. So what started as empathy, which still is empathy, has actually and this is to the people who may not understand the EMF effect that we spoke about. It actually does have a strategic purpose when looking back at it, because if I know you’re coming in hot. You’re angry. You’re. Things are just not good. I’m going to treat you very differently if I’m in business with you. I’m going to calm down. I’m going to come in nice and soft. Whatever’s making you upset, girl, it’s not here. Yeah. Let’s have a drink. Let’s have a glass of hot cocoa. Whatever comes people down. Some matcha.
Cailey Heaps: A little bit of tea. Yeah.
Simeon Papailias: Calm down. Yeah, I know you’re coming in careless. I’m going to bring you and hone you in. So there is the art of listening. Not only makes you a better person, but I think it makes you a better business person too. It makes you a better leader too.
Cailey Heaps: If people feel that they can talk to you and that you’re actually listening to them and thinking about solutions, and our job isn’t to solve people’s problems. I mean, we do as a byproduct of who we are. Our job is to listen and try and and and give ideas on how they can be working towards a solution that that fits their life. I don’t think you can be prescriptive in those things. Those are things that have to be self driven. I think the other thing is sometimes just say to someone, what does what does success look like? Like you’ve identified the problem, but what does success look like for you? Listen to what they have to say.
Simeon Papailias: They’ll tell you exactly what you need to do.
Cailey Heaps: Won’t they? But no one asks. When was the last time someone asked you that?
Simeon Papailias: I know the last time I asked somebody that because that’s actually how I close everyone. They tell me what they want to hear. So if I can deliver it. Because I’ll never lie. If I can deliver it, I repeat the exact. So you said. This is what I could do if they actually give you the code to the closing. Brilliant. It’s brilliant. But that’s also the exact same way I treat my team. So I’m going to ask you because I asked my. When somebody says, hey, man, I want to join your team. That’s great. Why? Yeah, why?
Cailey Heaps: And the answer is typically to make money.
Simeon Papailias: It’s the grass is greener leads the nonsense, which is all fake news. There’s no such thing. There’s millions of people that we have access to. But unless you call them, meet them. Ask them what? Success. Ask them what success looks like. They tell you and you deliver. There is nothing there. Yeah. Um, how are you leading your team? So to all the team leads out there. We talked about listening. We were talking client focused. How you’re winning in your practice. But we have two products. One is the client, one is our realtor team. And our realtor team are struggling or stressed just as much as anyone else. Just as as we are, because it is a time of volatility and instability in the marketplace. We are jockeying to remain where we were and or grow. Um, what is the message to your team? How do you lead them into battle? How are you listening? What kind of questions are you asking?
Cailey Heaps: So I think it’s really important to understand people’s why. So I would typically start with what’s your why? Why do you show up every day? If I can understand that I can help fuel their business and very rarely will someone answer money to that, they might say, well, I need to pay for my kids school, which is ultimately money, but it’s a it’s a much more personal. Why? So I think understanding the why is important. I really try and and I hope my, my team was here. I hope that they would agree with this, but I really try and remind the team that we’re in this together. We rise together. We fall together. There’s not one person who’s going to be left behind, or one person who’s going to leave us behind. We are stronger as one. So I think that trying to weave a really beautiful team environment where if someone needs help, someone jumps in immediately. We have a group chat. There’s never anyone who’s left feeling alone, which I think is why the model has moved towards teams largely in Canadian real estate, because the single agent model is a very lonely place to be.
Simeon Papailias: Nobody knew. Everybody thought, oh, you’re a real estate agent. You’re with people all day. No you’re.
Cailey Heaps: Not. No you’re not. No you’re not. You’re making phone calls.
Simeon Papailias: You’re out and about all day. Yeah. Alone in your car.
Cailey Heaps: And one of my favorite lines is, oh, you’re so lucky you get to make your own hours. Since when? Yeah, I actually answer to about seven. I’m at the beck.
Simeon Papailias: And call of every single human on Earth, you know?
Cailey Heaps: Um. So. Yeah. How do I lead my team into battle? So we’re. We are results driven. We know our metrics. We know what we’re going after. If someone else is having a win, you celebrate it because it contributes to our overall win. My team knows that I’m at the end of the phone if they need me. Whether it’s for advice, support, friendship. Whatever it is. Yesterday I had a few teary phone calls from agents on my team. It’s just a hard time for people.
Simeon Papailias: As it is.
Cailey Heaps: So how do I lead? I don’t know, I just try and be honest and authentic and I genuinely care about the people I’m around. I feel so fortunate to go into my office and be surrounded by people I love. How do you.
Simeon Papailias: Manage your time?
Cailey Heaps: So I’m a I’m a very, very. Uh, focused person. So if I know I have a task list for the day, which I do every day, I don’t leave until the entire list is finished. I never miss an appointment. I never call and cancel an appointment. If I say I’m going to be somewhere, I’m there. If I say I’m going to do something, I do it. If I say I’m going to make a phone call, I do it. So how do I manage my time? I typically wake up, look at my daily. Sure, I typically wake up at around 6 a.m.. First thing I do is I work out. I don’t eat anything, I don’t do anything. I grab a glass of water and I work out. I think it’s really good just to sort of clear your head for the day. I do it alone at home. I have a really good friend who teases me that I should do it in public. I don’t want to, so I work out, shower. By then I would have looked at my phone and probably answered 10 or 15 emails. I’ll quickly some days eat breakfast, but often not.
Cailey Heaps: And then I go straight to the office. I think that I, I believe that a team is productive when we’re together. So I’d like to demonstrate that. And then I’m in and out of the office for the balance of the day. I try and structure it. So I’m in my office in the mornings, doing my appointments in the afternoons. I’m usually home between 6 and 8, and oftentimes I go back out again, whether it’s for a meeting or a client dinner or. Whatever it is, I have the amazing benefit of having two incredible assistants. So they manage my calendar for me and they’re in my inbox, so they manage a lot of my emails. But much like you in the course of the day, I probably have. 4 to 500 pieces of communication, whether it’s an email, a text or a phone call. It’s a lot. I’m really trying to not work weekends as much. I’ll do emails, but I try not to do appointments on weekends. And then I travel, as you know. My reason for living besides my family is travel.
Simeon Papailias: So I of like so just just to to time this we are at fall 2023 and heading into November. December. I think it’s important for every agent, but more, even more important for team leaders listening to this, to start really understanding that this is the time to rally the troops. The year is not only not over, this is the most critical time to work the hardest. The thoroughbreds always push at the finish. Always. The rest of the journey. The rest of the race, the rest of the thing all is what brought you to the last point where you can jockey for position. We’re not disregarding the balance of the year. We’re honouring it by saying the only reason you have a shot at the finish line is because you work the entire race. But now. This very second is the time that you not only not put your feet up. Not only do you say, oh no, it’s time to think of next year. Next year is going to be a mess. Especially if you don’t plant the seeds now.
Cailey Heaps: 60 to 90 day thing. So do you want to have money in December January? Then you better be working now.
Simeon Papailias: It’s the oldest recipe on the planet. If you do a transaction today, the likelihood of it closing within 60 to 90 days is 80%. Only 10% of deals closed within 30 days. 62 120 days is 90%. So your your spring marketing and efforts are going to be determined with what closes in winter season January February, which is deals that you have to do now.
Cailey Heaps: And is a really good time to gain market share. Other people are tired, other people are feeling the pinch. So if you can show up, you can do the hard work. You better believe your market share is going to grow.
Simeon Papailias: So I repeat thoroughbreds the winners. The Heaps Estrin’s of the world, I can assure you, are jockeying for position this very second. This is the most fiercely competitive market in North America, with more agents per capita than anywhere. It’s just so crazy. It is so crazy. It is the most intense marketplace in North America from a construction and development perspective. And it’s never meant more for you to put in the reps than it does right now, because all the people who are disappointed, frustrated, stressed. Balance of mind is out of whack for all the reasons that can be. This is the time for a prudent business owner. To to to focus and work hard.
Cailey Heaps: Can’t cheat hard work, Simeon.
Simeon Papailias: You cannot cheat hard work ever. Never know. And well, people ask me like we never. We never saw your signs on the lawns. Ever. How did you get to where you are? And I said. I was working. That’s why you didn’t see me at the conference, the mastermind or anywhere else. Because that. 12 to 15 years that it took for us to. Let me repeat that 12 to 15 years. For anybody looking for a three year trip up top ten lane. Let me just assure you that that does not exist because everybody there is been there and will be there forever. And unless you work harder than them, you will never be there. So. It took 12 to 15 years of hard work to build a business. It takes a minimum of five years to even say you have a business. I don’t care who you are, what you’ve accomplished. Anything less than five years doesn’t have a strong enough foundation yet. The cement hasn’t dried yet. So you can still get kicked over? Yep. But at five years is kind of where the glue starts sticking. And at ten years, in a ten years, it’s kind of unshakeable. And at 15 years, well, it’s going to take maybe a tidal wave something.
Cailey Heaps: Lack of motivation.
Simeon Papailias: But but but that’s how long. That’s how long it takes. I’m always all over the place with you, because there’s just so many great things that you bring to the table, and I’m going to kind of wind this down at this point. You’ve shared your leadership style with your team, which is resilience and empathy and knowing that you’re stronger as one.
Cailey Heaps: Yeah. And I think when other people are giving up, you go deeper.
Simeon Papailias: And deeper. You’ve shared that with your clients. You put them first at all cost. And you will take more meetings and outsell your competition by working harder to stay where you are. You’ve shared the importance. Of what needs to happen now. If you’re looking to enjoy a proper. Late winter. Early spring. The last question I have for you. Is, what are you using for your marketing right now? Are you using digital methods, print methods, a combination? And what kind of budget should one set for the said marketing?
Cailey Heaps: So we are it’s a good question. So we still do print, but we’ve transitioned from traditional real estate print like just listings. And as you know, I used to talk about my f-ups. So now we do a magazine called beyond, and it’s a bi annual publication done by the same people who do Toronto Life. And it’s really it’s not about us at all. It’s about our city. It’s about lifestyle. Yeah. So that’s a really big marketing initiative. And then digital is of course the big one. I mean, it’s where you can actually see the metrics and you can pivot and adjust and engage with people. Our marketing budget would be probably 8 to 10% of our, of our, um, GCI.
Simeon Papailias: So that’s very significant. Um, I’m not going to speak to it, but it is a seven figure number. How do you. When you started marketing because that is the number it is 10% is bare minimum. It could be more actually, but 10% is the bare minimum. And when you’re doing five, ten, $15 million a year in GCI, we’re talking about 500 1,000,015, 1.5 million in. Ad spend. For people to comprehend what that nut looks like is that payable up front before results are delivered? Of course, of course it is.
Cailey Heaps: Of course it is. And this is why it’s hard for the individual agent. I mean, I want to be very clear. I love the majority of the agents in my marketplace. Majority, 1 or 2 who know who they are. Majority.
Simeon Papailias: You did well. The majority is good.
Cailey Heaps: But it’s just. It’s just a fact. Like most people can’t put 50 grand a month onto digital spend. Good luck. You’re not going to make any money. So.
Simeon Papailias: So with that said, I’m just going to go back to I think we spoke about about four minutes ago. Five minutes ago. The money that you put in your offers now deals firm now closing in January, closing in February, closing in March is what will fuel your campaigns for a good spring and summer. And the cycle is on and on and on.
Cailey Heaps: It’s consistency.
Simeon Papailias: It is consistency. So if you choose as an agent to slow down right now. Because I said I tried to motivate everyone saying, this is the thoroughbreds. The thoroughbreds come through now, you should do this. But also know factually that if you choose to put your feet up now, if you choose to slow down now. And Kaylee. Does not in every ceilidh because there’s a couple hundred ceilidhs across the country in Simeon’s. I can guarantee you I’m not turning off my machine. And I’m not going home early today. So if you know there’s a couple hundred Simeon’s, Cailey’s, Joe’s machines that are outspending you and outworking you, and you choose. To not spend in work. Do not look up in the sky and say why.
Cailey Heaps: That is a very good point, but I think that’s something we have to talk about, is. So before we started filming, you and I were talking about is it the journey or the destination? So we both sound like psychos right now because it sounds like all we do is work. So I think we have to be really clear to anyone who’s listening. We still know how to live life and we still have fun, but we delegate because we’re surrounded by amazing people. So I couldn’t do what I do without the amazing team I have. I know your team. You’re surrounded by amazing people. So yes, we work hard and you can’t cheat hard work and all of those things, but not always on. Correct. But we’re not going to want to do that unless there’s a reward. And for me, the reward is joy. So if that means a great trip with people I love, that means great weekend with someone I love, then that will fuel me to keep going. It can’t just be work. It can’t just be. No, it has to be family. It has to be. I’m a single mom with three kids, so I can’t really talk about a love, you know, like it’s a different. I don’t have a spouse that is motivating me, but I think, you know those moments of joy. Those are your why figure out what your why is and then you’ll be motivated to show up every day to do the work. And you can still step away. I take the holidays, you take holidays, but we have good people supporting all the things.
Simeon Papailias: That drive me. I love growth, so I love growth. I’ve always loved growth and my journey has been only growth. Yeah, meaning bigger, better, faster, stronger, happier, whatever. All the components of growth, the challenges. I love them because when they’re solved, that gives me joy.
Cailey Heaps: And you’re surrounded by having known your, you know, like knowing your wife a little bit. And I know you have children like knowing those pieces. That’s a big motivation. Huge. I have three kids. Two of the three are leaving home this year. Um, and yeah, you just have to figure out what your. You know, you better believe I’m going to go visit them. So then I surround myself with.
Simeon Papailias: Because there’s so many ways you can do it. I personally am home by typically 5 to 5:30 every day. My kids go to bed. They’re still 11 and 8 by 9:00, but unfortunately, you can bet your bottom dollar that at 9:03 I’m back on my Mac. Yeah, of course, because those three hours that I gave to my children, I took from somewhere else.
Cailey Heaps: And that’s where you’re smarter than I am. You give that time to your children.
Simeon Papailias: I mean, everybody does things differently, but like, that’s what meant something to me. So the mornings, for example, are uncompromising. Like, I will make my children breakfast every morning while my wife gets ready so she can get ready without being stressed. I see my children every morning and we have the intimate act of eating together, togetherness, and then off to the races. And then I see them again for the intimate act of dinner, because those are the moments that you connect in a different way. And what I have to do after. If I’m sending emails like a crazy person at 11:30 p.m., I mean, everybody who knows me knows that that’s when it’s going down, because that’s what it is, and.
Cailey Heaps: That’s when you have the time. So I would say if I could I mean, I’m not proud of this. I. When I had young children, I was only I was a I’ve always been the sole breadwinner in our family, and that forces you to to make hard decisions. I would rather have been there for breakfast and dinner every day. I wasn’t every day. So now that I’m on my own, I’m no longer married. I make that decision. So I do have breakfast with my kids in the morning. I do get them to school. I do come home typically for dinner most nights.
Simeon Papailias: You also live and learn. You made the adjustment because you saw your mistake in the past 100%.
Cailey Heaps: But for anyone who’s listening, although we’re drivers and we’re saying don’t give up, don’t cheat or do the 12, do the 14 hours not at the expense of the people who love you.
Simeon Papailias: And you can find ways to do it 100%. I don’t I don’t apologize to my wife that we can’t watch a sitcom together. 9:00 yeah, because the deal is waiting for me. Yeah. So what’s it going to be? Is it going to be the deal at 6 p.m. or the deal at 9 p.m.? It’s the 9 p.m. every time, because at six, we can all be together and take a breather. Yeah. So again, not everybody has to work this hard. If you want this type of result, you need to work that hard. You want to work a little bit easier. By all means do.
Cailey Heaps: Do you work hard? I’m sorry. I know we’re trying to wrap it up. Do you work hard because you have a specific goal in mind? Or do you work hard just because you don’t want to stop, but you don’t want to say no. You don’t want to give up on something.
Simeon Papailias: That’s an interesting question. I have changed a lot. I used to be driven financially in the very beginning.
Cailey Heaps: You have to be to succeed. Yeah.
Simeon Papailias: So, like I wanted to make. 200,000. I want to make 500,000. 750. A million. Uh, once you’ve reached kind of that high six early seven figure, you realize that that’s all the money you’ll ever need for a very comfortable life. Because I didn’t grow up a millionaire. I didn’t have obligations. I grew up on the exact opposite and spectrum. Meaning my we were in the restaurant business my whole life. My parents did the immigrant story, all the things, but I didn’t grow up with much.
Cailey Heaps: You grew up with a modeling of hard work.
Simeon Papailias: A model of hard work, and nothing was missing in our lives. Comfortable but low middle, lower class, but very middle too. So I didn’t grow up poor, but I grew up middle, middle poor. So I was starving to make that. I was very hungry once. The truth of the matter is, 20 grand a month in income is the life changer. Once you consistently make 20 grand a month, you don’t realize how easy or how much better life can be like. It was a dream come true on every level for you to put it into perspective, from all the things and all the success we’ve had, I still make a very similar amount because my corporation pays me a salary and my corporation invests in real estate, so I still don’t touch much more money than that because I still don’t go on helicopters. I know I haven’t, I haven’t changed my life as much as I could have if I wanted to because I don’t need it. I don’t like it. I think it’s wasteful. I’d rather give lots of charity. So I have my own demons, for example, and ethos. I would say ethos, sure. And complexes and all the things. But that’s truly my my truth and that’s its growth that drives me. Like, right now I’m on a huge tip on building new technology. I’ve connected with a lot of people in other areas of expertise, meaning artificial intelligence, prop tech, and I’m working on a on a massive undertaking that I believe will change the way Canadians invest in real estate. Good for you.
Cailey Heaps: You’ve always been an innovator, though. That’s part of your success.
Simeon Papailias: So that’s so and that’s my that’s my pathos is the word. It’s passion in Greek, just like ethos is ethics. My pathos is innovation and change. Bobby said something to somebody the other day that made me die laughing. He goes, every guy, every time this guy comes in the office every morning, he changes something in the office. Tucks chair a different way, moves a lamp over there, cleans up the granola bars from over here, puts them over here because it’s a more efficient use of the space. And I was laughing because it was like, God damn, it’s true. I do do that, don’t I?
Cailey Heaps: It’s never ending.
Simeon Papailias: Yeah. I just need to look, walk around the room, look at it and fix something. Yeah.
Cailey Heaps & Simeon Papailias: I’m not dissimilar to you at all. It’s interesting. Yeah.
Cailey Heaps: That’s maybe why we are.
Simeon Papailias: Miss Cailey Heaps, I want to thank you for coming on Broker’s Playbook. This was a very new format for the show today that we spoke in a very different not in an interview style way, rather a conversation and findings of life and kind of your path. I hope you were able to get all your thoughts out.
Cailey Heaps: All the ones I want to share.
Simeon Papailias: Yes, I love it. Maybe next time we’ll find the ones she doesn’t want to share. Everybody watching. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for staying on. We have a tremendous array of guests coming right up over the next few weeks and months. Stay tuned and please share subscribe to any platform that you are on that you actually use. We will be there. We have been there and we will continue to bring as much value as possible. Kelly, thank you for coming on the show.
Cailey Heaps: Thanks for having me. You bet.